Is "Keep Scale" confusing?

Domino Marama's picture

Recently a few instances of confusion over when "Keep Scale" should be used in the baker have come up. Both "Keep Scale" and "Keep Center" are off by default and both have a reducing effect on the used colour range for the sculpt map bake. So my thought is that this should be explained in the documentation rather than by renaming the button. Does something like this make it clear? This is sort of the style I have in mind for the user manual. Is the balance between explaining the feature and it's technical aspects ok? The final manual will have pictures of meshes and their bounding boxes to visually illustrate the effects as well.

Keep Center and Keep Scale when baking

When baking, each mesh has a bounding box box calculated from it's local vertex co-ordinates. So for a standard sphere this gives a range of -0.5 to +0.5 on each axis. After modelling, it's unlikely this will still be the case, so by default (to give optimal sculpt map quality) the mesh is recentered before calculating the bounding box so each axis is always -n to +n with 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 as the center.

With "Keep Center" enabled, two things are done. First the recenter step is skipped, so the range could still be something like -0.6 to +0.2. However this leaves the mesh center at -0.2 so the bake range has to be adjusted. This is done by taking the higher of the absolutes (no negative numbers) of the minimum and maximum as n, and using -n to +n as the bake range. So -0.6 to +0.2 becomes -0.6 to +0.6 This is calculated on a per axis basic to maintain as much quality as possible. This is most useful for objects that will need to rotate inworld, such as doors, as it lets you precisely place the pivot point in the mesh. The further the center is placed from the mesh center the more modelling detail you lose. For a door with the center at one corner of the X,Y planes and in the middle of Z, you'd lose 50% in X & Y as 0.0 to 0.5 becomes -0.5 to 0.5 and 0% in Z.

With "Keep Scale" enabled the minimum value for each axis is set to the lowest of all three values. Similarly the highest of all three maximum values is used to set the top end of the ranges. So -0.2 to +0.6, -0.5 to +0.7, -0.4 to + 0.5 would become -0.5 to +0.7 on all three axis. If you also had "Keep Center" enabled, then it would be -0.7 to +0.7 on all three axis. This gives a sculptie which has the proper proportions at a scale of 1.0 x 1.0 x 1.0 by sacrificing modelling detail. It has limited uses such as square megaprims or easy to use maps for almost square objects.

Both "Keep Center" and "Keep Scale" will result in a bounding box for your sculptie that is larger than the actual mesh, so their use should be avoided except in cases where their benefit outweights this disadvantage.

xidoraven's picture

Keep Center / Keep Scale buttons

I had assumed that both of these were used in baking multiple sculpties at once (like in a suit of armor that has multiple plates positioned around a body), but after you explain it, I see it has other applications.  I would state the specific few examples of where these benefits outweigh the risks at the end as you have described them here, and let it stay in the manual documentation rather than changing the name of the button - I think you have named them adequately.

I hope this answers your question, and as a quick proofread I think this looks great for a sensible draft on this topic.  I would simply add the examples I stated - examples can be worth a thousand descriptions, and your sample images will help back this up.

For the record, the method of creating multiple sculpties in placement is actually by exporting LSL Scripting, right?

Domino Marama's picture

Export LSL recreates size and rotation

Yes, using export LSL produces a script that will rebuild the objects in SL at the correct size, rotation etc.

I'm not planning on putting many, if any, examples in the manual. I do plan on a series of tutorials where it will be easier to explain the various techniques in context. It's unlikely that I'll do that before I can afford a new PC though, I really need to be able to record high quality video at decent frame rates to best explain things.

xidoraven's picture

Okay, I have been using

Okay, I have been using CamStudio a little bit lately, and it is nice to be able to do that.  I am still wondering how the LSL makes the sculpt maps and texture maps come through into SL...  Is part of the LSL scripting the import process for the sculpt map data and accompanying texture, or do they need to be uploaded individually like a typical single-prim sculpty?

I'm really glad to see so many people on board for helping you.  I know things are tough on your end, but it looks like you have a great crew of cheerleaders on your side!  Big smile

Keep Center and Keep Scale make total sense to me now.

Manny's picture

All is produced by Blender &

All is produced by Blender & Primstar scripts, once you finish with the modeling you bake the texture then you go to File (top menu) > Export > Second Life LSL (to dir) and choose where to save it, you will find a LSL script and the rgb map, you load it manually to SL (the rgb map) and open the LSL with notepad or whatever application you use for, what I use is "notepad" or "PSpad" or even "LSL-Editor", if windows, or any GNU/Linux text editor, mac os x is likely a FreeBSD (essentially) so there must be something similar, copy the content and paste it in the  LSL script/s you created for the ocassion, already in SL. Well... Then you follow this video tutorial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRkOMYDL2ss&feature=channel_page (all the videos are interesting and there is part 1 of multi-part export by Keira Wells.)

I was peeking at that video minutes ago (I'm re-editing this comment), what I noticed is that the new LSL asks you to drag a primitive called: "Prim" inside the main object (where you drag the LSL and the rgb map texture), which is not shown in that video, probably because he's using and older version of Domino's scripts.

What the LSL script/s created by Blender & Primstar do is to keep the same size & position in-world of the sculpted prims emulating the way it looked at Blender, if you are familiar with ZBrush and "Sculpty Maker" and "Sculpty Rezzer" by 2k Sussie it's almost the same thing, I'm not sure which one was created first and it doesn't matter at all haha the Maya scripts probably do the same as well as AC3D and its plugin and "Tri Creator".

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