sculpt map issue - LOD? image size issue? - considerations for my Rockbiter project
I am experiencing an issue that i am not familiar with, and wondering what I have done wrong and what I can do both to fix it, as well as to avoid the same issue in the future. This project is an animated creature I would like to make for a friend's theme sim - the Rockbiter from 'The Neverending Story'.
The object that I know is an obvious issue is with the palm sculpty - the section of his hand the fingers and thumb connect to. The sculpt map is wider than I ever denoted, and some things are giving me errors while in any resolution higher than one - and it should be set for a 3-level multires for LOD.
Once I get the build finished and mirror the objects for the other side, along with individualizing the objects as separate sculpt maps, or whatever it takes to use duplicated sculpties. Then I want to rig it and animate it in blender and give it some rocks to eat and drop (maybe even realistically with LSL/physics?) and pop it into SL. I will texture it when I get the build together, and will probably have that done before I fully understand the concept of animating and LSL export requirements. I saw forum topics on re-mapping sculpt maps (is this prim efficient? is there a way to make this prim conserving?), and on mirroring sculpts, so I see no challenge in figuring out those issues as I come to them.... I just need to make sure I can get to that point with fully-functional and LOD-oriented sculpties.
This is my first full-scale SL prim object project. In the long-term, I want to create SL creatures, objects, environments, custom fantasy/SF avatars, and be as time- and prim-efficient as possible in my Blender/Photoshop workflow. Custom texturing and adequate use of both in-blender texture painting as well as Photoshop texture manipulation are also on my to-learn list... Again, I am not there yet, but I will be soon. Please some input?
The Rockbiter .blend file is attached. I am running on Windows Vista, Blender 2.49a, and I am not sure of the quickest way to find my exact release version of Primstar, although I did look for a little bit and I know it is relatively recent, most likely v0.9? Thanks and best wishes,
-will
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| rockbiter.zip | 1.13 MB |
What errors?
Without knowing the errors you mean when you said "some things are giving me errors while in any resolution higher than one", I don't know what to suggest. Some features of Blender (such as UV Mapping) only work on multires level 1. It's one of the reasons I prefer to work in subsurf.
Rigging in Blender for this would be pointless, you can't use that rig in SL so you'd need to redo the equivalent in LSL scripting anyway. What I would do is set the center on each part to it's rotation point and bake the part with "Keep Center" enabled. This way at least some of the animation will just be rotations.
Prim use is a balancing act. There are definately places where this model could use fewer prims, but that would have an effect on animation. For example, combining the upper and lower arm into a single prim is easily done without losing much detail, however bending the arm then needs seperate sculpt maps for each position. With the current model (depending on how it's linked) it would just require rotations, or rotations and repositioning of the prims.
For the fingers I'd seriously consider reducing the poly count to fit a number of them on a single map. You could then animate by having a texture with alpha to only show one of the frames at a time. The blocks technique is a good place to see how the multiple finger shapes could be put onto a single map.
I'd update the version of Primstar too. For quite a few releases now, the version is displayed on the interface, so if you don't know which you are using, it's an out of date one
rockbiter fix
I peeked around your .blend and tweaked the palm, there was an ugly glitch, and face count is not the right one if you are not used to UV manipulation or at least using the new feature "Sculptify". What I did... I grabbed around the vertices a little and then applied smooth a couple, after that I had a friendly shape normalized so... I removed the UV Texture and Sculptified the palm, the map is now 32x64 with 1012 faces at level 2 Multires, don't push it further if you don't know what you are doing. Also there was a little origin center issue I fixed as well, as you will notice I modified the set-up for my personal convenience and placed the model the way I liked moving the lights and camera to the 2 layer and viceversa. Hope it helps.
Tips, you could create the eyes 1 prim (2 spheres 1 prim) or the eye+the eyebrows 1 prim using Domino's technique he mentioned. The head could be 1 prim as well. It's up to you!
Image size keep them 64x64 except the oblong cases, like the palm, i.e.
The Operation only available on multires level 1 error if that's what you mean just go back to level 1 Multires, it's a pest isn't it? haha
Nice model, keep on the road!
2 eyes or 1?
Manny raises a good point about the eyes. But again, the modelling will come back to what you need animation wise. Does the rockbiter need to look cross eyed at something? Then you need to move the pupils out of sync, so two eyes are needed.. If not, then you could use a single sculptie forming two hemispheres. Rather than moving the eyeballs, you could move the texture to keep the performance cost down.
operation only available on multires level 1
Manny got it exactly right. What I don't understand is how I even got to that point, when I created that sculpt the same as I did the others... And yet when imported it was the only one to give me a problem (that I can see).
Keep Center will help to make thing pivot and rotate well, but does that lose any quality to the sculpty or sculpt map when you do that? I also don't understand why the sculpt map had to change from the original 64x64...? I didn't want it that way, and I added it from a typical sculpt mesh (a cylinder, I do believe). Did I perhaps import it as the wrong sculpt type (ie, sphere) or something?
Duplicating eyeballs and eyelids should work just fine for the SL animations - is that done while in blender and translated into LSL? Is 'True Mirror' something that must be applied to a sculpt map while baking, and if done in that way will it create a mirror image of my arm and leg parts for a symmetrical body form?
I definitely need to keep these objects separated to give them more lifelike animations, and I couldn't risk the thought of having broken obects in low LOD by splitting my sculpt map into separate objects like a set of fingers... Plus, I am not sure how alpha texturing would help me to create those fingers separately. I am still quite noob at this, even though I have had a little time to play with it and tweak it around a little after watching Gaia's Machinimatrix video tutorials.
Is rigging for LSL animation coding a future goal of Primstar? If this is going to remain an in-world only function, what is the best way to rig a custom animated object set like this? I have seen people make avatar animations and AOs... Is there anything like that kind of animation-assist?
Thanks for all the input!
-will
Tradeoffs
Yes, Keep Center will have an effect on the use of the sculpt grid range which may reduce the accuracy of the bake. You need to plan what tradeoffs you are going to make with a model of this complexity.
You only need to increase to 64 x 128 if you want to keep the extra detail. You can bake meshes that are higher than sculptie resolution or designed for a different ratio to a standard sculpt map with Primstar.
You can duplicate sculpties in Blender and the export script will create two prims using the same maps. Proper support of SL mirrored sculpties is still on my todo list, so if you want to use that type of mirroring it still needs to be done manually. 'True mirror' was renamed to Finalise - I need to check the SL source code to see how the client mirror is implemented. If it mirrors by reversing the U direction, then yes Finalise is needed for accurate mirroring. If the client mirrors by reversing R then Finalise is only useful for producing a more compressible map.
I have considered doing LSL animation from within Blender. It's a massive job though and I'm not getting anywhere near the level of donations that would support such an effort. I really hate having to keep mentioning donations, but it's a fact of life that I need money to survive. Once I'm actually able to work regularly again I'll have no choice but to put money at the top of my priorities.
Here's the SLOCCount report for Primstar 0.9.28
I know how much productive time I've spent on Primstar, and those figures are reasonable estimates. The total donations for Primstar don't even cover the last four digits. So that's $120,000+ of my time that I've given away. And that's without considering that my wrist means it takes me 3 or 4 times longer to do that amount of work. Working 12 hours in a day to do what should have been finished by lunchtime is very frustrating.
So although creating LSL scripted objects within Blender is a goal (I've even allowed for it in the design of export_lsl), it's not one that's likely to be implemented unless something changes. As things stand I'll be giving the majority of my attention to commercial products in the New Year. To keep my current level of work on Primstar up, I'd need to be seeing $1000 a month coming in via donations.
Sorry about bringing this up in response to your post, but it's on my mind a lot at the moment as the money raised by Gaia and Machinimatrix's fund raising in August won't last much longer. Hopefully I'm on a few peoples Christmas lists otherwise I'll be starting the New Year pretty much broke.
old tree + rocks - xidoraven
Hey buddy, any advance with the project?
Minutes ago I modeled a 1 primitive base old tree model, It might come handy for your project and I'm willing to share it so feel free to use it and modify in all the ways you feel you should. You are gonna need to tweak it to gain LOD: keep center, scale it down, and use a megaprim 15m-20m up the size you need and the accuracy it shows.
up-dated:
Added base rocks too, why not... Same tweak for the rocks should work.
If someone else thinks it comes handy, feel free to use it and modify it too.
update & question
So far have not had much time to work on Mr. Rockbiter. I will check out those blend files though. I have yet to be able to really implement the changes you provided in your last review (because I did do a little work after that upload - and still need to translate over the data), so I have been slacking. Unfortunately, the people who were hosting the Neverending Story themed sim do not have the same theme anymore... So it would be a personal project alone.
I have also been pulled into some design jobs, a teaching job, and been getting elbows deep in some writing projects surrounding RPG materials... So I have been pulled in directions that prevent me from continuing hard work in this venue. I keep thinking about finding solutions to some of the issues I was running into, but with Blender being so complex and no easy solution options that I am fluent in, it's hard to inspire myself to go back to it right now. That will probably change at some point, when I am no longer swamped and trying to stay inspired in other venues.
Thanks for watching out for me and staying in touch though - it always helps to have someone ask for updates... Reminds me of the things that I have been putting off. ;) :bigsmile: Is there any way that I can begin networking and pitching PrimStar to organizations that can help fund development of new options? Is there any way to get SL company to have an interest in the project to the point of funding or official endorsement of any form? That would be my strongest avenue of contribution if I choose any at all.... I wish I knew more about the coding structure to help with the technical aspects, but I am rather impotent in that aspect. Maybe I could take up reviewing the literature one more time for grammar, instruction details, and applicability.... Sorry I am dropping the ball right now. :P
How is Domino? Any better luck this year than what you had thought? Should we organize another fundraiser in SL, Machinimatrix, and the net?-will
hey xidoraven
Go... with the flow... It's cool change time to time, imagine: from coding to flash web-designer and now part of this beautiful 3d related project, do not fear to change! Of course, stability is a good factor as well, but changing is quite recreative especially if you can apply all you have been learning in the new adventure. Life is all about changing and self development.
About Primstar support and so on Domino is the right person to talk to.
About his health I handle more or less the same information you know probably, he's having a hard time at the moment but hopefully he will get better following the treatment.
By the way, I'm gonna travel next week that means I won't be around for a while (I'm not that helpful anyway) and Domino is taking care of his health which is keeping him away from the PC, that means you guys will have to share the knowledge you all have collected in this site and all over the Internet helping each other like the community we are. I could see it's happening already so I'm super glad.
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